Devel Version
  • April 9, 2023, 9:13 p.m.

    This is the terms of service that the site intends to adopt. Open for comment for the moment. Once adopted, all members will need to agree to continue using site. (Company name obfuscated to avoid being gazumped for registration)

    Terms of service

    This document contains the provisions which determine the rights and responsibilities of you, the service user and xxx xxxxxx Foundation Ltd, the service provider.

    Permission to use the site

    DPRevived.com ("the Site") is a Web site owned and operated by xxx xxxxxx Foundation (“the Foundation”), a company incorporated in England and limited by guarantee. The Foundation grants permission to you to use this site subject to your acceptance of these terms. By accessing, registering a user name, logging-in or posting content on the site you give your acceptance of these terms.

    Conditions of use

    Your permission to use the Site and its facilities is subject to these conditions:

    Your usage must comply with the standards of acceptable use and content explained below.

    If the Foundation directly contacts you to say that its permission to use the Site has been withdrawn you must cease all usage. The Foundation reserves the right to withdraw permission to us the Site for any reason without explanation.

    You must be of age and standing to enter into a legal agreement under the laws of England.

    Acceptable use

    You must not engage in any activity on the Site which is contrary to the federal
    laws of the United States of America or the laws of the European Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    You must not use or attempt to use another person’s account without their express permission, nor must you impersonate other people when using the forum.

    You may not upload any material to the Site in breach of the owner’s copyright, nor remove any marks showing proprietary ownership from any uploaded materials.

    You may not link or show any part of the site containing members’ copyright materials to other websites in a manner that causes those materials to be separated from the context of The Site without the members' express permission in writing.

    You may not use automated means to access the Site for the purpose of ‘web crawling’ or copying material on the site, unless it is for the purposes of a publicly available search engine or similar resource.

    You may not falsely claim or imply affiliation with or endorsement by the Foundation or the Site.

    You may not circumvent, disable or avoid any security or access restrictions of the Site.

    You may not conduct trade in user names or other unique identifiers on the Site.

    You may not use the Site for advertising, chain letters or other solicitations, nor to gather personal data for these purposes.

    You may not encourage or aid anyone else to violate these terms.

    Content standards

    You may not post or upload any material which is illegal in the jurisdictions of the federal United States of America, the European Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    You may not post or upload content which is liable to cause harm or distress to other people, including personal abuse and offensive discourse targeting a group or an individual based on inherent characteristics (such as race, religion or gender) and that might threaten social peace.

    You may not post or upload material containing malicious computer programs or codes intended to activate such programs or that provides them with data.

    You may not use the Site to disclose information that you do not have the right to disclose.

    Your content

    Nothing in these terms gives the Foundation any ownership rights in any images or other intellectual property that you upload or share using the Site. This includes your account information, posts, images or other content that you submit to the Site. Likewise, nothing in these terms gives you rights over the Foundation’s intellectual property.

    Between yourself and the Foundation, you are solely responsible for any content that you upload or post to the Site. You agree that you will not falsely imply that content that you upload or post is in any way approved by the Foundation or sponsored by it. You agree that the Foundation has no obligation to store, maintain, or provide copies of material that you submit, nor to modify it in order that it complies with these terms.

    Ownership of content uploaded or posted by you remains with you. You decide on the permissions that you grant to other users with respect to it. But at a minimum you licence the Foundation to use it in a manner necessary for the running of the Site. This licence includes the right for the Foundation to copy, publish and analyse any and all content that you submit to the Site and to modify the content in order that it be compatible with the operation of the site, these conditions and any other policies which may be adopted by the Foundation.

    Your responsibilities

    You agree to indemnify the Foundation from any legal claims by others that may be a consequence of any breach by you of these terms, or by such breach of others using your account with your permission. Both you and the Foundation agree to notify the other of any legal claims to which the above applies as soon as possible. If either party fails to notify the other promptly the other party will not have to indemnify the first party for damages the could have been defended against had prompt notice been given.You agree that the Foundation will control investigation, defence and legal claims for which you would have to indemnify the Foundation, and to co-operate with those efforts. The Foundation agrees not to agree to any settlement that admits fault for you or imposes obligations on you without your prior agreement.

    Your account

    You must create and log on to a personal account in order to use some of the facilities of the Site.

    To create such an account you must provide sufficient information about yourself to allow the Foundation to protect the site against impersonation, ‘bot’ accounts and other malicious use. As a minimum, if you create an account you agree to provide a valid e-mail address, which you will regularly monitor. You agree that you will keep that email address up to date.

    Disclaimer

    You accept all risk of using the site and the content thereon. As far as the law allows, the Foundation, its associates and members provide the Site as is, without any warranty whatsoever.

    In the case that the site hyperlinks and integrates services not controlled by the Foundation it does not make any warranty concerning those services or the content that they provide. Use of such services may be governed by other terms between you and those responsible for the service.

    Limits on liability

    Neither the Foundation nor its suppliers will be liable for breach of contract damages that their personnel could not reasonably foreseen when you agreed to these terms. As far as the law allows the total liability to you for claims that are related to any activity of the Foundation are limited to £50 Sterling.

    Enforcement

    The Foundation may investigate violations of these terms and prosecute to the fullest legal extent. The Foundation may notify and assist law enforcement authorities in prosecuting violations of the law and these terms.

    The Foundation reserves the right to modify, redact, and delete content on the site for any reason.

    Changes

    The Foundation adopted these terms on --/--/-- and may subsequently update them. All updates will be posted on the Site. Once a notice of updates has been posted you must agree to the new terms in order to continue using the site, and by so doing give your assent to the new terms.

    Severability
    In the event that any part of this agreement is found to be invalid or unenforceable, only that particular part so found will be inoperative, and not the entire agreement.

    Jurisdiction and disputes

    This Agreement shall be governed by English law. You and the Foundation agree to seek any legal redress related to these terms only in the courts of England. Any dispute arising out of or in connection with this Agreement shall be referred to arbitration in London in accordance with the Arbitration Act 1996 and any amendment thereto or substitution thereof. You agree that arbitration proceedings will be held at the London Court of International Arbitration.

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  • April 10, 2023, 7:55 a.m.

    Good point. I'll think about a form of words which protects peoples' copyright without constraining links. The intention is to prohibit hot linking, not linking the page as a whole.
    Edit: New wording added, check to see if it suits.

  • April 10, 2023, 7:58 a.m.

    It's covered, because if you have the owners permission you are not in breach of copyright.

    Refers really to hot linking
    Edit: Check new wording.

    I prefer 'liable' - it has a good correlation with 'liability'.

  • April 10, 2023, 8:23 a.m.

    Lots of ages of standing but in English law, and the rest of the UK, but to enter into contracts you need to be 18 or older. This doesn't prevent youngsters participating, but their account has to be opened by an adult and then used with that adults express permission. This is worthwhile putting into the next document, which will be guidelines to acceptable use and content standards, which will say how we will interpret the basic terms of service.

    Yes, that's better, but needs to be amended in any case to be specific about hot-linking.
    Edit: your wording adopted.

    Isn't that the statement 'The Foundation reserves the right to modify, redact, and delete content on the site for any reason.' or maybe I should add 'including content that you have uploaded or posted'
    Edit: Added to 'and to modify the content in order that it be compatible with the operation of the site, these conditions and any other policies which may be adopted by the Foundation.

    Thanks for the comments Bill, greatly appreciated

  • April 10, 2023, 8:23 a.m.

    It's hot-linking. I'll amend to clarify.
    Edit. New wording adopted.

  • April 10, 2023, 8:29 a.m.

    Yes, I will amend to make sure that it is clear that it is hot-linking that is referred to.
    Edit: check new wording.

    This is a legal document, gives us the ability to take action should it be needed. The judgment call of when we need to take action is a different matter. The next document will be a clarification with examples of what we would think might fall the wrong side. And of course, people will come up with types of bad behaviour that we never thought of.

    Yes, there will be a another document which will be 'guidelines' which will talk about what would be considered to be in violation of these terms. I hesitate to call it a 'code of conduct', because this is primarily a leisure space for people, not a professional association. It's really guidelines about civil social interaction.

  • April 10, 2023, 8:36 a.m.

    For a Brit, English comes naturally. For an American it would be American English. I'm not sure that there is an authoritative definition of 'International English'. By and large it comes down to a few 'u's here and there and the odd 'z' or 's'.

    I think that has its place in the guidelines, but not in the legal document underpinning them.

  • April 10, 2023, 8:48 a.m.

    Remember, this legal part is the underpinning. Unfortunately, it might be necessary, for the health of the site, to exclude people who do these things without intention - sad but true. This documents says that we can. There will be a guidelines document to go with it, which will be a policy document laying out how we are liable to interpret it. And just like the law, the fact that you can be prosecuted doesn't mean that you will be or should be, it just means that there is the legal basis to do it if necessary. In addition, there will be a guidelines for facilitators (aka moderators) which aims to have even standards of application. This will be a public document - absolutely no reason fro it to be private, we're all in this together.

  • April 10, 2023, 8:51 a.m.

    That's along the lines I'm thinking of.

    This is already 'clear and simple' legalese. Compare it with some other CoS. But there will be a guidelines document which includes dos and donts.

  • April 10, 2023, 10:36 a.m.

    The real point of ToS is to separate our legal liability from the individual user's. So, if someone violates another person's copyright using the site, it's them that is responsible, not us. It's worthwhile keeping it in broad terms, otherwise you're inviting people to find loopholes. But, I'm trying to think of a formulation which makes it clear that it applies only to hot linking, and not making a link to the site as a whole.
    The problem is, this goes along with the rights a site takes over users' copyright material. Keep the linking loose, you end up claiming more rights to what you can do with members' copyright material.

  • April 10, 2023, 10:37 a.m.

    I'll add that after the clause that says when we say stop, stop.
    Edit: Added.

  • April 10, 2023, 10:56 a.m.

    Especially since we have Misago's excellent quoting system which is a load more powerful that DPReview's.

  • April 10, 2023, 10:57 a.m.

    Done

  • April 10, 2023, 12:27 p.m.

    Done

    Trade mark work has still to be done.

    Absolutely, high priority. Turns out we need to form the Foundation first.

    I went through quite a few different forms of agreement. I think it needs to be simple, and so far as I could see this form, used on quite a few sites, covered what is needed without excess complication. The £50 limit seems to be around the norm. Capitalisation has no legal effect, degrades readability and makes the document more scary, which I didn't want.

    Good point. Adopted.

    Added.

    Usual legal belt and braces. You will agree to arbitration but if you don't it will be in the English courts.
    Thanks for a detailed set of comments, which has strengthened the document.

  • April 10, 2023, 12:28 p.m.

    Not at all. Any comment promotes more thought, which is a good thing.

    And 'Z' is deprecated these days.

  • April 10, 2023, 12:31 p.m.

    It will be. Further, current members will need to agree on their next log-in.

  • April 10, 2023, 2:24 p.m.

    I've got two Zs, but mine just add up to 15 so I've got less to worry about.

  • April 10, 2023, 7:34 p.m.

    Now Guidelines for terms of service.


    Guidelines on using this site

    When you use this site your usage is governed by the Terms of Service
    for the site. This underpins the relationship between you and the site,
    but like all legal documents is designed to cover 'worst case'
    situations. For day to day use you are entitled to know how we will
    interpret that document and how we expect you to conduct yourself in
    accordance with it. With a common understanding we can make
    DPRevived.com a comfortable and rewarding space for everyone. This
    document takes you through the provisions of 'acceptable use', why they
    are there, and how we'd like you to shape your site usage in response.

    Content standards

    1. You may not post or upload any material which is illegal in the
      jurisdictions of the federal United States of America, the European
      Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

      This should go without saying. If you post material that might cause
      the forces of the law to come down on this site, you have done the
      whole community a huge disservice. Moreover, if you do it, we'll
      report you to the law enforcement agencies, so you'll have done
      yourself a huge disservice.

    2. You may not post or upload content which is liable to cause harm or
      distress to other people, including personal abuse and offensive
      discourse targeting a group or an individual based on inherent
      characteristics (such as race, religion or gender) and that might
      threaten social peace.

      This is much more complex. The last part is the UN definition of
      'hate speech', which must very definitely be kept off the site under
      all circumstances. Content that is liable to cause harm or distress
      is clearly more of a judgment. As a site, we will make that judgment
      and remove material that we believe falls the wrong side. We would
      much prefer it if our members make an appropriate judgment for
      themselves, so we don't have to. Here are some guidelines.

      • Be empathetic. Something that would cause you distress would be
        likely to cause others distress -- so don't subject others to
        behaviour that you would not want inflicted on you.

      • Be aware of the medium. In face to face interaction we get cues
        that give us feedback about how other people are reacting to
        what we say. We don't get that over the web. So, one person
        might think they are making a joke, whilst the other might find
        what is said is insulting. Err on the safe side.

      • Be culturally aware. What people find distressing differs, and
        this is an international site. Profanity, nudity and content of
        a sexual nature can all fall foul of this difference. The Web is
        not short of places where these types of subject can be
        indulged, so don't use this one. All it will do is make this a
        place where a lot of people don't want to be.

      • Don't be nasty. There is no real reason to descend to abuse and
        name calling, so don't do it. In the end it weakens your side of
        the argument.

      • Argue constructively. Robust and interesting discussions are at
        the heart of the reason people come to this kind of site, but
        let's keep them constructive. If you disagree with someone,
        state why you disagree, don't just keep contradicting -- that
        just results in your interlocutor becoming irritated. Don't
        resort to ad-hominem arguments. They are always fallacious and
        don't improve the tone of the conversation. Don't take umbrage
        because your opinion is disputed, that's what discussion is
        about. Show respect for the other party -- you might think you
        have more experience and know better, but you could easily be
        wrong.

      • Don't participate in bullying. We know how it works in the
        school yard, the gang picks on the guy with the unpopular
        opinions. Don't do it here.

      • Be sympathetic. All types come to this forum, including people
        from different backgrounds, different cultures, the
        neuro-divergent and people with different life histories who
        have been through traumas you don't know about. You may think
        that their behaviour is unreasonable, but there may be many
        reasons for it. Don't make the situation worse by picking
        disputes even if you feel that the other party is.

    3. You may not post or upload material containing malicious computer
      programs or codes intended to activate such programs or that
      provides them with data.

      It's obvious why you shouldn't be doing this, so don't do it.

    4. You may not use the Site to disclose information that you do not
      have the right to disclose.

      If you disclose such information you might be sued or prosecuted.
      If you use this site to do it, we might be sued or prosecuted.
      Obviously we will not allow that.

    Acceptable use

    1. You must not engage in any activity on the Site which is contrary
      to the federal laws of the United States of America or the laws of
      the European Union or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
      Northern Ireland.

      Clearly, the site nor its owner cannot operate if it is used for
      illegal activity. In many parts of the world things are illegal that
      shouldn't be. We have chosen to take a view of 'legality' based on
      some of the major liberal democracies in the World. If your activity
      is illegal in these jurisdictions, we really don't want you doing it
      here.

    2. You must not use or attempt to use another person's account without
      their express permission, nor must you impersonate other people when
      using the forum.

      Impersonating other people is extremely dishonest and damaging.
      There is no valid reason to do it, so don't.

    3. You may not upload any material to the Site in breach of the
      owner's copyright, nor remove any marks showing proprietary
      ownership from any uploaded materials.

      Photographers typically value their own copyright to their work, and
      we expect people to operate on the bases of treating other people as
      they would wish to be treated themselves. Moreover, the site really
      doesn't want to be embroiled in copyright disputes. Note that the
      terms say 'in breach of copyright', which means that you may post if copyright
      law allows usage, such as for instance 'fair dealing' provisions, or
      if the copyright owner grants an open licence, for example Creative
      Commons. When posting material under these provisions please comply
      with all and any of the licence provisions. If posting under 'fair
      dealing', you should comply with English law, see
      www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright

    4. You may not link or show any part of the site containing members'
      copyright materials to other websites in a manner that causes those
      materials to be separated from the context of The Site without the
      members' express permission in writing.

      Following on from the above, it's possible to unknowingly cause a
      breach of someone's copyright by 'hot linking' on another site,
      which results in the persons work being displayed on that site
      without anything to indicate whose it is, or what are the licence
      terms. To prevent this we simply don't allow hot-linking.

    5. You may not use automated means to access the Site for the purpose
      of 'web crawling' or copying material on the site, unless it is for
      the purposes of a publicly available search engine or similar
      resource.

      This is to stop bad actors using search bots and other malware to
      breach copyright and gather personal details. The presumption is
      always that anyone using these tools is up to no good.

    6. You may not falsely claim or imply affiliation with or endorsement
      by the Foundation or the Site.

      You don't have authority to speak on behalf of the foundation unless
      expressly authorised to do so, so please don't do it.

    7. You may not circumvent, disable or avoid any security or access
      restrictions of the Site.

      Should go without saying. Don't hack us!

    8. You may not conduct trade in user names or other unique identifiers
      on the Site.

    9. You may not use the Site for advertising, chain letters or other
      solicitations, nor to gather personal data for these purposes.

      Taken together it means please don't use the site to conduct dodgy
      business practices.

    10. You may not encourage or aid anyone else to violate these terms.

      We're in this together. Let's keep together.

    Our role

    Our role is to keep this place welcoming and interesting for all. Unless
    your activity is such that it threatens the well-being of the forum,
    such as illegal posts or posting malware, we will try to find solutions
    to issues through mediation and agreement. In the case where sanctions
    are needed to restore order they will be as minimal as is needed, for
    instance, we might use a short (hours) forum ban to allow disputants to
    calm down. Extended bans and account deletions will only be used as a
    last resort, or in the case of illegal or malicious behaviour.